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September 22, 2018, 10:26:22 pm
Soldat Capture The Flag League  |  General  |  General Discussion  |  Would you want to try my WM on the "official discord" gather channel? « previous next »
Poll
Question: Would you like it to be possible to try my WM on the official gather channel?
Yes
No

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Author Topic: Would you want to try my WM on the "official discord" gather channel?  (Read 1414 times)
ginn
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« on: February 20, 2018, 11:19:07 pm »

Quick poll.

Either by making a different !add option, or replace current servers WM with mine for a while.

https://pastebin.com/raw/Z3KpD2J9

Difference: Generally lower damage, more accuracy.
See earlier topic for more details.
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nosejj
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« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2018, 02:17:28 pm »

Either by making a different !add option
I would not mind personally.
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Petterkowski
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« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2018, 03:02:05 pm »

!addg for instance. Giving people an opportunity to test something won't be harmful.

Altough i'm not a fan of a higher TTK as i've mentioned several times before, this is still something I really wish was possible. In the ever-growing sea of weapons and its modifications in this game, it's hard to pick out a weapon people might end up liking since competitive side of Discord can't try them out before liking them.

Even though some of us, including myself, are not convinced that ginn's view on certains weapons would be good for the game in the long run, I'd still give it a shot to test his stuff out in a competitive environment to see if I'll like it or if it will just be an expected mastery fodder. Because with the way the game works currently it's hard to tell how a weapon will be without heavy investment. And so this could also possibly be a big dose of information for the current WM team, which parameters are worth keeping, and which ones should you dismantle for parts and try again?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 03:05:26 pm by Petterkowski » Logged



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ginn
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« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2018, 03:49:15 pm »

The higher TTK is kind of made up for by the higher accuracy. As I've said before though, lowering TTK over all guns is fairly easy, it just takes a little time.

I've tried to keep it close to darDars when it comes to TTK, but increased it a little since guns are much more accurate (so you'll hit more bullets).
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Petterkowski
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« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2018, 03:53:21 pm »

We used to have custom gather and it worked for some period of time. I don't see a valid reason why shouldn't we give ginn's WM a try. If this actually happens, after a week or so you should create an online questionnaire asking about particular weapons and general questions to give it more insights into the final outcome of the try.
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DutchFlame


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« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2018, 09:22:47 pm »

Agreed with what Petterkowski said. Explore all options and get the best balance by optimizing it.
Comparing different weapon-mods is a great way to get good feedback.

There should be no reason to object for another weapon mod to test. After all it's currently forced when participating in gathers.
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« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2018, 11:46:32 pm »

+1
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ginn
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« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2018, 10:11:37 am »

17 votes, only 1 voting no (wonder who). I have an idea, considering I was suddenly removed from #wm-team some time ago with no reason stated, but no real kind of pointless to speculate (just a bit funny to me).

I'm gonna ask them again, about it, since my first time I was shut down (but apparently Fryer, Manofonewawy (flash), Nosejj had no idea about such a vote/issue ever being brought up, Dutchflame may have been one of the clueless ones too... So I wonder if it was ever really taken up to a vote).
I'm somewhat doubtful it'll happen though, soldat community/admins don't have a good track record. If you do care, bother the admins about it, and ask more people to vote here. 17 vote in total isn't really that much, it'd be much better if it were 30-40 votes.
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DutchFlame


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« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2018, 01:01:42 pm »

? I think the question is already in the air, just need to wait for a few dudes to actually put the wm through
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nosejj
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« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2018, 12:08:34 am »

WM Gather is now added. You can use !wmadd and !wmadd+ on Soldat Discord to start a gather queue with qb's weapon mod.
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ginn
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« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2018, 11:46:35 am »

And here's for people complaining about the ruger.
It's impossible to make ruger good, the hit detection in soldat is just too bad to make it reliable at all. This is even when I've lowered bullet speed to slower than steyr.

https://my.mixtape.moe/zvogcc.webm

(obviously this is a bad series of eats, this isn't the standard, but there's a lot of eats in general with ruger)
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 12:12:07 pm by ginn » Logged
mtk


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« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2018, 09:49:03 am »

I've had the pleasure of testing your WM on 2 maps yesternight™. Unfortunately I was playing vs two r| guys and they were "having fun" with barretts/m79 for whole match, so maybe it wasn't so reliable. All in all my thoughts are:
1. Overall damage reduction
I agree with concept that promotes better movement, and when guns does less dmg -> you stay alive longer -> you can run further and faster. Obviously me & you possess better moves than average of community, however on this version of WM I almost didn't care if someone is shooting me or not. Spray guns doesn't do enough damage, ruger needs 3 or more to kill (Huh?Huh?), spas is unreliable and so on... This is just a step too far. Honestly I felt more sure of killing with m79 than counting on spray. This is just a nade dependent meta (has always been but not to this point), if you hit opponents legs with nade then you win, bullets doesnt matter. If we really wanna go this way, you should think about reducing nade dmg as well.

2. Ruger
Look, I know you know, but... Skill ceiling for this gun has always been the highest, and now you can't even be rewarded with perfect 4/4 aim by double kill. You know headshots are unreliable, so we cannot depend on them. If you want to stick to the concept 3 bodyshots/1hs+1body to kill, either ammo has to be increased (I would gladly test 5 or 5+ bullet clip) or fire interval has to be reduced. Maybe try 1 bullet per clip but reolading faster, don't know, it needs testing. One thing is super clear for me: even with low dmg meta, 3 bodyshots to kill will remove this gun for every competitive gameplay.

Maybe I'll add something later, depends on how you take criticism
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ginn
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« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2018, 11:19:24 am »

The damage may be low, the input I got way before was that guns should have lower damage. Honestly, kill time should be pretty close to dardars. It takes about 1 bullet more to kill, but since you can aim you'll be hitting that extra bullet. For the next version I can up the damage to what I had before I lowered it.

Spas has a lot of utility, I don't think it has to be OP and able to compete against other guns at range. Spas has also always been unreliable, since it can be 2 hit kill or 5 hit kill. Now it's 2-3 hit kill depending on how close or how fast you're moving.

Ruger HS is fine, there's no movement inheritance, so it shouldn't be all too difficult to hit. The problem is that hit regs are so poor and unreliable that it doesn't really matter what you do with the gun. If it's to be usable it has to be completely broken OP, since then if you're not lucky you can still win. However, that'll mean lots of people who don't really deserve to win will win because they got lucky with the hit registration.

I tried reducing it's bullet speed to that of AK, and then it had a bit better hit registration... I think that's a path that's possible to take, especially with increased bullets (I bascially tried to make it more like a winchester). 6 bullets, 1hs+2body to kill, and obviously faster fireinterval.
The real fix has to come from soldat though, I'm not sure if it's actual hit registration, or if there's some issue with the client not sending packets (or server refusing them).

Lowering bullet speed didn't really reduce the eat rate. I'd say the eat rate of ruger is around 15-20%, and that's not even an exaggeration. I really don't know what to do about this gun.

I think it's too early to make any changes  now though, maybe the 17th march would be enough time for people to get a feeling so that they have some idea of implemented changes.

I have discovered I gave the admins the wrong WM, may explain why brt was overused so much, because it had no movement acc as I were experimenting on it on that wm version With the replacement I'll also add some more damage, and a change to ruger. It appears that the movement inheritance value was what made it eat so much, this could also apply to knives.

This is new one: https://pastebin.com/raw/ALPPqVMj

  • >Overall more damage (including ussocom)
  • >Ruger is 1hs+1leg/body to kill, gave it 1% movement inheritance as that appears to be the reg issue culprit
  • >Barrett has back it's movement acc (it was never meant to be removed)
  • >chainsaw and knife has 1% movement inheritance to see if that increases hit reg
« Last Edit: March 12, 2018, 01:37:53 pm by ginn » Logged
ginn
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« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2018, 08:27:05 pm »

Probably next WM update.
https://pastebin.com/raw/7aXkwHbs

AK feels a little underwheliming, buffed damage slightly
Spas had a little low damage, buffed damage, lowered spread (more accurate), and increased ammo
MP5 and Minigun also felt underwhelming, they've had an increase in damage
Steyr feels a bit too strong, reduced ammo, lowered damage (lowers the range where it can 9 hit kill)
Lowered bink on Barrett

Readjusted Bulletpush, all guns except minigun are able to effectively boost flag on blade. Minigun got increased push to help it a little with battle, about 1/3rd of what would be considered normal bullet push from a normal auto.
Insignificantly reduced reload time for M79, to the lowest amount it can get without skipping reload audio

WM = Ginn wm 2.30 -> 2.32

[HK MP5]
Damage 0.885 -> 0.9

[Ak-74]
Damage 0.9 -> 0.9125
Push 0.0137 -> 0.011

[Steyr AUG]
Damage 0.65 -> 0.625
Ammo 30 -> 25
Push 0.00714 -> 0.007

[Spas-12]
Damage 0.95 -> 0.985
Ammo 7 -> 8
Spread 0.8 -> 0.6

[M79]
Reload 178 -> 174

[Barret M82A1]
Bink 55 -> 45

[FN Minimi]
Bulletspread 0.0525 -> 0.52
Push 0.0109 -> 0.0945

[XM214 Minigun]
Damage 0.65 -> 0.65625
Push 0.00125 -> 0.002

[USSOCOM]
Damage 1.2 -> 1.25
Ammo 12 -> 14

This post will change whenever I decide to make a change.
2.31 was a bit too drastic in changes, halved the damage increases on the weapons that were overtuned.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 10:35:43 pm by ginn » Logged
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« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2018, 10:49:24 am »

!wmadd
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