Soldat Capture The Flag League

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: ginn on January 29, 2019, 11:00:00 am



Title: The wm situation; Is this the end?
Post by: ginn on January 29, 2019, 11:00:00 am
As we all know, darDar is no longer "creative lead", and he will not be doing the wm (weapon balance).

This has left Urraka and Helloer to decide what to do next.
I've spoken with them prior to darDars disappearance, about creating the wm. They said that since darDar has been working on it, they don't feel like there's any need to let me or anyone else do the wm, they'll simply take the wm darDar makes because that makes it simpler for themselves and doesn't upset anyone in the admin sphere.

After darDar went missing I've talked with them again.
However, since not 100% of people supported my wm, they don't think I should be doing it. I then asked what they intend to do with the wm, and their response is that they're letting it up to the gather staff to decide.
This was over 3 weeks ago. I've tried to talk to the admin staff, that they may supervise my work on the wm, if that makes them more comfortable, and that I'm seemingly the only one who puts effort into making a wm.

The decision that has been reached by the gather staff is that they won't care about the wm until the alpha/beta/release candidate is released. Their motivation is that there could be some changes to the weapons.ini that allows for further balancing options.
At a very shallow glance you may believe this is reasonable... but it isn't, and here is why.

The attitude, "we'll do it later", means they're very unmotivated. The time span between alpha/beta/rc and full release could be 1 week, or a few weeks, of course it could take longer still, but I suspect it'll be pushed to release rather quickly.
Because of this lack of time, there won't be much time to work on a wm, a wm they haven't even started working on.
Another point is that there's no need to wait until potential new "tools" for the wm has been released. The weapon balance will remain the same, the key issues is TTK, ease of use for every weapon, their weaknesses, strength, TTK based on different ranges and different movement speed. With new tools all of this remain the same, the only thing these tools will give is options on how to achieve these goals. The time to develop the wm will more or less be the same, no matter if they start now, or if they start after they potentially get new tools (i.e. it'll be more rushed if they start close to release).

So I need your support to change this apathetic attitude towards the wm.
I've been working on a wm version for a very long time, run my own gather channel, and even gotten it on the official gather channel (they now refuse to put it back in).
Do you really want this to be the actual last movie? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5hH0f2UvOY
Vote for me to be your wm chancellor. I will fix everything.

(my wm focuses more on gun accuracy, the TTK is just about the same as current wm. I've also made an effort in making all the weapons usable, guns like DE see little use, and I've made attempts to solve this issue)

Gather channel is operational again: https://discord.gg/rwNzBA
It has a ranked system right now. !add or ++ to add, and !remove or -- to remove. After a match you have to write !reportloss or !rl if you lose.


Title: Re: The wm situation; Is this the end?
Post by: cappy. on January 30, 2019, 08:14:03 am
can you paste a link to your wm here? I'm interested


Title: Re: The wm situation; Is this the end?
Post by: ginn on January 30, 2019, 09:47:47 am
Sure, here is the latest one: https://pastebin.com/raw/MAkzzfqu

Code:
[Info]
Name=Ginns WM
Version=3.01

[Desert Eagles]
Damage=1.7
FireInterval=22
Ammo=7
ReloadTime=70
Speed=19
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.0
BulletSpread=0.0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0176
InheritedVelocity=0.01
ModifierHead=1.10
ModifierChest=0.9
ModifierLegs=0.9

[HK MP5]
Damage=0.9
FireInterval=6
Ammo=32
ReloadTime=105
Speed=18.9
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.008
BulletSpread=0.035
Recoil=0
Push=0.0112
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[Ak-74]
Damage=0.91
FireInterval=10
Ammo=40
ReloadTime=165
Speed=24.6
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=-11
MovementAcc=0.0
BulletSpread=0.0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0121
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.9
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Steyr AUG]
Damage=0.642
FireInterval=7
Ammo=27
ReloadTime=125
Speed=26
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.01
BulletSpread=0.01
Recoil=0
Push=0.0077
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.9
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Spas-12]
Damage=0.985
FireInterval=34
Ammo=8
ReloadTime=165
Speed=14
BulletStyle=3
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0.6
Recoil=0
Push=0.022
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[Ruger 77]
Damage=2.6
FireInterval=45
Ammo=4
ReloadTime=85
Speed=33
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=12
MovementAcc=0.015
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.012
InheritedVelocity=0.01
ModifierHead=1.167
ModifierChest=0.78
ModifierLegs=0.62

[M79]
Damage=1550
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=176
Speed=10.7
BulletStyle=4
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.036
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Barret M82A1]
Damage=4.45
FireInterval=210
Ammo=6
ReloadTime=130
Speed=55
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=20
Bink=50
MovementAcc=0.055
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.018
InheritedVelocity=0.01
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[FN Minimi]
Damage=0.747
FireInterval=9
Ammo=50
ReloadTime=250
Speed=27
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.00045
BulletSpread=0.055
Recoil=0
Push=0.010395
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.9
ModifierLegs=0.9

[XM214 Minigun]
Damage=0.6125
FireInterval=6
Ammo=100
ReloadTime=365
Speed=29
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=13
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.02
BulletSpread=0.045
Recoil=0
Push=0.002
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.00
ModifierChest=0.9
ModifierLegs=0.9

[USSOCOM]
Damage=1.24
FireInterval=10
Ammo=14
ReloadTime=60
Speed=19
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.02
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.9
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Combat Knife]
Damage=2150
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=3
Speed=6
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.12
InheritedVelocity=0.1
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Chainsaw]
Damage=50
FireInterval=2
Ammo=200
ReloadTime=110
Speed=8
BulletStyle=11
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0028
InheritedVelocity=0.01
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=0.9

[M72 LAW]
Damage=1550
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=300
Speed=23
BulletStyle=12
StartUpTime=13
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.028
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Punch]
Damage=330
FireInterval=6
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=3
Speed=5
BulletStyle=6
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Grenade]
Damage=1500
FireInterval=80
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=20
Speed=5
BulletStyle=2
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0
InheritedVelocity=1
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=1.0
ModifierLegs=1.0

[Stationary Gun]
Damage=1.8
FireInterval=10
Ammo=100
ReloadTime=366
Speed=36
BulletStyle=14
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0088
InheritedVelocity=0
ModifierHead=1.1
ModifierChest=0.95
ModifierLegs=0.85

[Flamer]
Damage=19
FireInterval=6
Ammo=200
ReloadTime=5
Speed=10.5
BulletStyle=5
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.016
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Rambo Bow]
Damage=12
FireInterval=10
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=25
Speed=21
BulletStyle=7
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0.0148
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9

[Flamed Arrows]
Damage=8
FireInterval=10
Ammo=1
ReloadTime=39
Speed=18
BulletStyle=8
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0
BulletSpread=0
Recoil=0
Push=0
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.15
ModifierChest=1
ModifierLegs=0.9


Title: Re: The wm situation; Is this the end?
Post by: Vinteek on January 30, 2019, 05:46:05 pm
Why bother, they'll do whatever they want without even consulting people.

As to the topic: weapons in your WM appear less deadly, which in current state of things and the quality of our official servers is the worst thing that can happen. Also handling them in my opinion is easier than it is on this one (and rn its a piece of cake...) so I dont really like the idea of having to adjust to changes once again.

Do I believe WM needs to be changed? Yes. But that shouldn't have been a one man task, it needs to be consulted with as many people as we only can, voted on if needed.

What would I change?

HK - it's too deadly on mid ranges or long ranges.
AK/Steyr - add a bit of a push, it sometimes feels impossible to boost a flag with it.
Steyr - add some recoil, make it less accurate when shooting constantly without bursts.
Spas - make it work :d
Barret - fix bink kicking in late, reduce push
Minigun - bring back start up / delay
Grenades - increase damage so that one grenade leaves 10% hp.



Title: Re: The wm situation; Is this the end?
Post by: ginn on January 30, 2019, 08:01:53 pm
weapons in your WM appear less deadly
And this is why I didn't provide the wm in the first place. People do not know how to read a wm, or get a picture to how it works.

Lower damage, but higher accuracy, and a slightly higher damage modifier. TTK as I have stated already, is about the same, might even be lower.

A full auto brt with loads of spread would have a longer average TTK than a single shot startup timed brt.

Steyr - add some recoil, make it less accurate when shooting constantly without bursts.
When was the last time you played soldat? 5 years ago?
The steyr is already so inaccurate that you can't consistently hit players torso or head on longer ranges. It's the only gun with a semblance of accuracy, the other guns are unusable because of how inaccurate they are. Giving it even more inaccuracy would mean it's about as accurate as mp5.

It's bizarre how people went from absolutely hating not having control of where your bullets go, into wanting even less control.


Title: Re: The wm situation; Is this the end?
Post by: Vinteek on January 31, 2019, 05:05:30 pm
weapons in your WM appear less deadly
And this is why I didn't provide the wm in the first place. People do not know how to read a wm, or get a picture to how it works.

Lower damage, but higher accuracy, and a slightly higher damage modifier. TTK as I have stated already, is about the same, might even be lower.

A full auto brt with loads of spread would have a longer average TTK than a single shot startup timed brt.

You do realize I'm not speaking this after some notepad weapons properties but after playing gathers with your WM?
Are they more precise? Yes.
Are they less deadly? Imo yes and the accuracy being better doesn't fix anything.
Spawns are short as fuck and we also have instant knife which is terrible.
I'd even bet on it that if we were able to get some statistics out of gather played with your WM it would have turned out that the cap ratio was lower than on the one we have now.

Steyr - add some recoil, make it less accurate when shooting constantly without bursts.
When was the last time you played soldat? 5 years ago?
The steyr is already so inaccurate that you can't consistently hit players torso or head on longer ranges. It's the only gun with a semblance of accuracy, the other guns are unusable because of how inaccurate they are. Giving it even more inaccuracy would mean it's about as accurate as mp5.

It's bizarre how people went from absolutely hating not having control of where your bullets go, into wanting even less control.

I have been playing with Steyr from the very beginning of my Soldat adventure, this weapon has never before been more accurate than it is right now. I can put almost 27/30 bullets into my target from long range at wide open maps like Guard. I'm not able to do the same with other weapons. When I played your WM the steyr felt like it was a lazer gun, i could hit not 27 but 30 out of 30.

Also I didn't tell a single time that I hated WM with recoil in it. I loved it, it made players work for each kill and train their way of making bursts/movement/positioning. Right now its just whoever hits first wins which is pathethic.


Title: Re: The wm situation; Is this the end?
Post by: ginn on January 31, 2019, 05:22:02 pm
Longer TTK would actually mean more caps, since defending becomes harder, on some maps. Maps where hard defense is possible caps should be less frequent. Good nade usage would make a difference as well, unfortunately all strategy was removed from soldat some time ago (nade/med kit spawn is random).
Amount of caps per map really doesn't mean anything, it's irrelevant.
Do you think we should make all guns into automatic brts to increase the amount of caps per map? Does that mean the gameplay is suddenly better now, because the amount of caps per map is higher?

My steyr has gotten more inaccuracy. If I recall, it does not have the shortest TTK, and guns such as mp5 will win in close combat (instead of current wm where steyr is king at all ranges). AK should be winning out as well.
While you may be able to hit 30/30 shots. Can you place the shots right? Or do they all go into torso?

Instant knife has nothing to do with wm. Either way, certain guns not holding up in close combat just means each gun has their own strengths and weaknesses, rather than one gun being the best at everything (steyr right now).

Recoil is realistic mode, it has no place in normal soldat.
If you're talking about self-bink, it does not work like it did before, so that cannot be reimplemented. It was changed to spread to lower the skill gap, making it RNG instead of skill based. Adding self-bink to guns now is quite retarded, I've tried to give it to AK, but since there's no way to control self-bink anymore it's not a good way to balance guns.


Title: Re: The wm situation; Is this the end?
Post by: stachura on February 05, 2019, 09:43:05 am
The game is not fun at all if you keeps changing wm version after version. There was 1.4.2/1.5 weapon mod perfection but ofcourse it needed to be destroyed, the best solution is that you only should do is : not touching wm at all. And again discord admin team is somewhere offset... favoriting and banning people for nothing. Ill be first one to keeps people out of this game and for sure from discord community, which is trash and unfriendly for newbies.


Title: Re: The wm situation; Is this the end?
Post by: ginn on February 05, 2019, 04:41:33 pm
High effort post:

Made a new wm to possibly please some more people.
https://pastebin.com/raw/Yv6QpSWD

Overall, decreased TTK (faster to kill), about same as current darDar wm. Decreased accuracy for most guns. Decreased push to allow more autonomy for players, rather than  being stopped mid air because you got hit (except spas).
MP5 is an attempt to go back to roots, inaccurate while moving/fall, but highly accurate while standing still.
Minigun is a normal mode attempt at being something else than an annoyance, unlike the current darDar Minigun which is basically realistic mode.

Changes darDar WM 1.8 -> Ginns WM 4.01

[Desert Eagles]
Damage: 1.51-> 1.42
Fireinterval: 24 -> 23
BulletSpread: 0,15 -> 0
ModifierHead 1,13 -> 0,9
ModifierTorso 0,98 -> 1,1
ModifierLegs 0,98 -> 0,9
Reason:Removed BulletSpread to keep it as accurate as possible. Rewarding Torso hits over headshots, since the bullets deviate apart at random and poor hit registration it's correct to aim for center of mass. Overall slightly less damage, but significantly better accuracy

[HK MP5]
Damage: 1,01 -> 0,975
Ammo: 30 -> 32
MovementAcc: 0 -> 0,02
BulletSpread: 0,14 -> 0,002
ModifierTorso 0,85 -> 1,1
ModifierLegs 0,8 -> 1,0
Reason: Overall damage increased. Given it MovementAcc instead of BulletSpread to more closely resemble the old MP5, before BulletSpread patch. Torso deals more damage than headshots to reward proper aiming, since the gun is inaccurate it should be rewarded to aim correctly

[AK-74]
Damage: 0,945 -> 1,11
Ammo: 35 -> 30
MovementAcc: 0,006 -> 0,005
BulletSpread: 0,011 -> 0,01
Push 0,01376 -> 0,0121
ModifierHead 1,0 -> 1,1
ModifierTorso 0,85-> 0,9
ModifierLegs 0,8 -> 0,9
Reason: Increased Damage to counteract it's inaccuracy from self-bink. Lowered Ammo capacity to decrease it's total potential

[Steyr AUG]
Damage: 0,704 -> 0,675
MovementAcc: 0,001 -> 0,012
BulletSpread: 0,075 -> 0,012
Push 0,0084 -> 0,0077
Reason: Damage is slightly decrease, about the same TTK. Inaccuracy has changed from being overall inaccurate, into being MovementAcc based. It's not quite a laser, but you now have to hover and be more cautious of your movement to keep accuracy.

[Spas-12]
Damage: 1,22 ->0,985
BulletSpread: 0,8 -> 0,6
Push 0,0188 -> 0,022
ModifierHead 0,88 -> 0,975
ModifierTorso 0,82 -> 1,1
ModifierLegs 0,82 -> 0,975
Reason: Slight decrease in Damage, increase in accuracy. Center of mass is the proper way to aim due to it's inaccuracy, adjusted the hit modifiers to reward proper aim

[Ruger 77]
Damage: 2,49 ->2,6
FireInterval: 51 -> 45
ReloadTime 90 -> 85
Bink: 0 -> 12
MovementAcc: 0,0275 -> 0,02
InheritedVelocity: 0.5 -> 0.01
ModifierHead 1,1 -> 1,167
ModifierTorso 1,028 -> 0,78
ModifierLegs 1,028 -> 0,62
Reason: Increase damage to counter it's loss of movement inheritance. Increase Bink to make it less potent at open space combat and vs fast firing automatics. Ruger has previously been a "marksman" gun, rewarding good aim, and head shots. I've tried to restore that, by rewarding HS greatly, but punishing feet shot. Torso shots are less potent to make it less crippling to get hit once from a poor shot

[M79]
RealoadTime: 178 -> 176
Make it just slightly better, cannot reduce reload further to not mess up audio and animation

[Barret M82A1]
Ammo: 5-> 6
ReloadTime: 250 -> 130
StartUpTime 19-20
Bink: 65 -> 50
MovementAcc: 0,05 -> 0,055
InheritedVelocity: 0.5 -> 0.01
Reason: Lowered bink to make it recover faster, may increase it's viability in competitive play. Start up time to match with prone animation better. Increase Movement acc to punish "luck shots" more. Removed InheritedVelocity to make accurate and tight long range shots possible.


[FN Minimi]
Damage: 0,85 -> 0,784
ReloadTime 240 -> 250
MovementAcc: 0,013 -> 0,0015
Push: 0,0128 -> 0,010395
ModifierHead 1,0 -> 1,1
ModifierTorso 0,85 -> 0,9
ModifierLegs 0,8 -> 0,9
Reason: Damage is virtually the same. Slightly more accurate, this gun has been made uncontrollable in it's inaccurate, unlike steyr and AK which needs movement control/fire control

[XM214 Minigun]
Damage: 0,58265 -> 0,663
Ammo: 80 -> 100
ReloadTime 400 -> 365
Speed: 28 -> 29
StarUpTime: 0 -> 13
Bink: 13 -> 0
MovementAcc: 0,0372 -> 0,02
BulletSpread: 0,0232 -> 0,045
Recoil: 1 -> 0
Pushl: 0,013 -> 0,002
ModifierHead 0,95-> 1,0
ModifierTorso 0,92 -> 0,9
ModifierLegs 0,88 -> 0,9
Reason: Made it a gun for Normal mode rather than Realistic mode, i.e. I removed the Recoil. I've removed almost all push to make it less annoying to play against. It's more of a "support" gun, it can inhibit brts and rugers. Startup to make it less potent for regular combat.

[USSOCOM]
Damage: 1,49 -> 1,45
FireInterval: 11-> 10
ReloadTime 72 -> 60
ModifierHead 1,0-> 1,1
ModifierTorso 0,85 -> 0,9
ModifierLegs 0,8 -> 0,9
Reason: Minor changes, it's fireinterval is the original. More damage to make it more potent, and make M79 and Brt more viable in competitive play

[Combat Knife]
InheritedVelocity: 0 -> 0.01
Reason: 0.01 instead of 0.0 to potentially increase hit registration

[Chainsaw]
Ammo: 120 -> 200
ReloadTime 180 -> 120
Reason: Minor changes.


Changes Ginns WM 3.01 -> 4.01

[Desert Eagles]
Damage: 1,7 -> 1,42
Fireinterval: 22 -> 23
InheritedVelocity: 0,01 -> 0,5
Reason: To put back velocity inheritance damage had to be reduced. However, it's damage reduction was limited to decrease TTK, it now kills faster. Added Fireinterval to balance it's TTK.

[HK MP5]
Damage: 0,9 -> 0,975
MovementAcc: 0,008 -> 0,003
BulletSpread: 0,035 -> 0,09
ModifierChest: 1,0 -> 1,1
Reason: Increased damage to decrease TTK. Increase inaccuracy to make it less viable at range

[AK-74]
Damage: 0,91 -> 1,11
Ammo: 40 -> 30
MovementAcc: 0,0 -> 0,005
BulletSpread: 0,0 -> 0,01
Reason: Increase damage to decrease TTK, ammo lowered to limit it's total kill potential. Added inaccuracies, both limits it's usability and deadlyness, and makes some people happy

[Steyr AUG]
Damage: 0,642 -> 0,675
MovementAcc: 0,01 -> 0,012
BulletSpread: 0,01 -> 0,012
Reason: Increased damage to decrease TTK. Increased innaccuracy to make it less potent at ranges, and it makes some people happy

[Spas-12]
Ammo: 8 -> 7
ReloadTime 165 -> 175
ModifierHead 1,0 -> 0,975
ModifierTorso 1,0 -> 1,1
ModifierLegs 1,0 -> 0,975
Reason: Increase Torso damage to slightly increase damage potential, decreased head and feet damage to reward aiming the spas the correct way (aiming for center of mass)

[Ruger 77]
MovementAcc 0,015 -> 0,02
Reason: Decrease it's accuracy slightly

[FN Minimi]
Damage: 0,747 -> 0,784
MovementAcc: 0,00045 -> 0,0015
BulletSpread: 0,055 -> 0,064
Reason: Increased damage to decrease TTK. Increased inaccuracy to make some people happy

[XM214 Minigun]
Damage: 0,6125 -> 0,663
Reason: Increase damage to lower TTK

[USSOCOM]
Damage: 1,24 -> 1,45
Speed: 19-> 18
Reason: Icreased damage to decrease TTK. Speed restored to original

[Combat Knife]
InheritedVelocity: 0.1 -> 0.01
Reason: Correcting mistake. 0.01 instead of 0.0 to potentially increase hit registration


Title: Re: The wm situation; Is this the end?
Post by: elMorvano on February 05, 2019, 06:03:49 pm
There is missing 4th option like "dont touch WM again"


Title: Re: The wm situation; Is this the end?
Post by: Gor on February 05, 2019, 06:31:35 pm
I agree with stachu and morvan,wm is not perfect but its decent.
Lately it feels people try to change it just for the sake of changing,I dont recall the last time these changes actually felt better.


Title: Re: The wm situation; Is this the end?
Post by: ginn on February 05, 2019, 08:05:22 pm
There is missing 4th option like "dont touch WM again"
I agree with stachu and morvan,wm is not perfect but its decent.
Lately it feels people try to change it just for the sake of changing,I dont recall the last time these changes actually felt better.
There is technically no wm anymore.
darDar made his botched wm some years ago, and right now there's no finished wm.
You can't just opt out of having a wm.


Title: Re: The wm situation; Is this the end?
Post by: Gor on February 05, 2019, 08:33:30 pm
There is missing 4th option like "dont touch WM again"
I agree with stachu and morvan,wm is not perfect but its decent.
Lately it feels people try to change it just for the sake of changing,I dont recall the last time these changes actually felt better.
There is technically no wm anymore.
darDar made his botched wm some years ago, and right now there's no finished wm.
You can't just opt out of having a wm.
What is unfinished about the current vm used in gathers?


Title: Re: The wm situation; Is this the end?
Post by: ginn on February 05, 2019, 09:33:31 pm
There is missing 4th option like "dont touch WM again"
I agree with stachu and morvan,wm is not perfect but its decent.
Lately it feels people try to change it just for the sake of changing,I dont recall the last time these changes actually felt better.
There is technically no wm anymore.
darDar made his botched wm some years ago, and right now there's no finished wm.
You can't just opt out of having a wm.
What is unfinished about the current vm used in gathers?
The weapons aren't balanced.
I think even darDar said he was gonna do rebalances.

If you want to "make no changes", you'll have to go back to some proper wm. Prior to darDar fucking up the wm.
Probably around 1.6.2


Title: Re: The wm situation; Is this the end?
Post by: stachura on February 06, 2019, 10:15:37 am
These changes are sick, spas damage in torso 1.1 ?? You know what you actualy doing? Desert eagles decreased damage and 0,9 damage in head :OOOO ?????

How i be able to kill people from top with these DE, It seems i will need 3/4 shots from top to kill guys on mid/low.

Jesus ginn... dont touch it anymore, you became second darDar. You appeared after some years, you wanna make second wm revolution (like darDar did) and you will dissapear, like you often do.


But if you really REALLY want to change weapon mod, keep it easy and dont make crucial changes.





Title: Re: The wm situation; Is this the end?
Post by: ginn on February 06, 2019, 01:08:35 pm
These changes are sick, spas damage in torso 1.1 ?? You know what you actualy doing? Desert eagles decreased damage and 0,9 damage in head :OOOO ?????

How i be able to kill people from top with these DE, It seems i will need 3/4 shots from top to kill guys on mid/low.
Yes I know what I'm doing.
DE has always been 3-4 hit kill. Only in 1.2.1 where it was broken OP it was regularly a 2 hit kill.


Title: Re: The wm situation; Is this the end?
Post by: stachura on February 06, 2019, 01:33:08 pm
These changes are sick, spas damage in torso 1.1 ?? You know what you actualy doing? Desert eagles decreased damage and 0,9 damage in head :OOOO ?????

How i be able to kill people from top with these DE, It seems i will need 3/4 shots from top to kill guys on mid/low.
Yes I know what I'm doing.
DE has always been 3-4 hit kill. Only in 1.2.1 where it was broken OP it was regularly a 2 hit kill.

Ummm... Seems seriously you just came back and wanna make big revolution without any knowledge


Dude... Look at morvans signature....

"3-4 hit kill" xD...

Please leave this weapon mod alone, you will only make it worse.


Title: Re: The wm situation; Is this the end?
Post by: ginn on February 06, 2019, 01:37:00 pm
These changes are sick, spas damage in torso 1.1 ?? You know what you actualy doing? Desert eagles decreased damage and 0,9 damage in head :OOOO ?????

How i be able to kill people from top with these DE, It seems i will need 3/4 shots from top to kill guys on mid/low.
Yes I know what I'm doing.
DE has always been 3-4 hit kill. Only in 1.2.1 where it was broken OP it was regularly a 2 hit kill.

Ummm... Seems seriously you just came back and wanna make big revolution without any knowledge


Dude... Look at morvans signature....

"3-4 hit kill" xD...

Please leave this weapon mod alone, you will only make it worse.
I don't care if darDar made DE 2 hit kill with extreme inaccuracy, that's not what DE was or should be. Like he made ruger wildly inaccurate and high damage, essentially into a close combat weapon.


Title: Re: The wm situation; Is this the end?
Post by: stachura on February 06, 2019, 10:30:22 pm
But it wasnt in 1.2

LOL


Title: Re: The wm situation; Is this the end?
Post by: Verbeia on February 07, 2019, 03:01:41 am
Dude get a laid.People obssessed with some big ass chicks or big titties and you are here obsessed with weapon mode of a inactive game WOTAFOK.Stop trying to get any admin status just by making an easy wm that everybody can do in their free time.Also stachu just made a great statement that you arent active player and not even playing this wm.We all playing gathers for months after dardars wm and i see no unbalanced gun in the game if you are good player except AK is very slow and damage low.But its been this way like in every game some things get better or worse like Minimi era where it was must use gun to be competitive.Now you can use many guns at competitive level even with the spreaded bullets of minimi its damage is pretty good and you can win sctfl with it go ask Petterkowski :D.For example i cant use hk on icebeam top idk why im not comfortable with it but hey Foley is winning sctfl with hk on top.Stop complaining try to play this wm more before making changes.I smell that u just want to be a part of the game developer team or something you are not even looking sincere to me from outside ssorry :D


Title: Re: The wm situation; Is this the end?
Post by: bernadinho on February 08, 2019, 04:17:14 pm
yep i agree with verbeia. i think hk on icebeam top is hard because its not a good weapon to shoot from down to up


Title: Re: The wm situation; Is this the end?
Post by: cappy. on February 09, 2019, 10:13:58 pm
LOL


Title: Re: The wm situation; Is this the end?
Post by: ginn on February 11, 2019, 08:44:25 pm
-snip-
Did you play and lose, or get terrible score in my wm? This blind "omg it's bad" reaction tend to only come from the losing side.

I've played plenty of gathers, but I don't play it anymore because it's so terrible.

Type        Count   
-------------------
Gather      31     
Captains    18

darDars wm focuses on RNG through spread instead of movementacc and self-bink, and ruger is just a luck fest, same with DE, as it's all about spread or fuck huge movementacc where you need to prone or stand still to aim.


Title: Re: The wm situation; Is this the end?
Post by: ginn on February 15, 2019, 11:30:59 am
Made a replica of 1.6.3 now, as !wmadd in normal soldat gather.
This is to remind you guys of what soldat USED to be like. Guns USED to be lasers.

Soldat 1.4.2 had an inaccurate steyr, but AK and Minimi were quite so accurate.
There's no way to actually replicate this, since how bink works has completely changed.

This is Stery in 1.6.3: https://streamable.com/fk6h1
This is Steyr in !add: https://streamable.com/5ti89
(note the spike in inaccuracy in 1.6.3 is because of the first bullet bug, I wrongfully tap fired instead of holding (no self-bink))


Title: Re: The wm situation; Is this the end?
Post by: snejok on February 16, 2019, 07:22:01 pm
MAKE Minigun GREAT AGAIN


Title: Re: The wm situation; Is this the end?
Post by: bernadinho on February 17, 2019, 07:10:05 am
i think weapon mod in !add is better. it has pink background and the interface looks real posh


Title: Re: The wm situation; Is this the end?
Post by: Verbeia on February 18, 2019, 06:08:25 am
Yeah very plenty games i see 49 games and you judging it just because you want some attention like bernadinho needs attention from suna


Title: Re: The wm situation; Is this the end?
Post by: ginn on March 05, 2019, 05:56:05 am
Here's a mix of 1.6.3 and 1.4.2
https://pastebin.com/raw/16aWT0yh